Benjamin Ard00:00 — Welcome back to another episode of Content Amplified. Today I'm joined by Emma. Emma, welcome to the show.
Emma Lieberman00:05 — Thanks so much for having me. Glad to be here.
Benjamin Ard00:07 — Yeah,
Emma, this is going to be fun. This is going to be a cool subject. We have talked about storytelling so many times, but your perspective, I think is really, really cool. And I'm excited before we dive in though, Emma, let's get to know your background work history, all that fun stuff. So the audience knows who you are.
Emma Lieberman00:23 — Yeah, absolutely. you know, the way I always say I'm not supposed to be here. It's I started off not in marketing, but in entertainment. I was an actor, a comedian. I did a little bit of stand up, a little bit of sketch. I did some indie, indie, indie films. But I was I had moved out to Los Angeles to pursue the dream. I was waiting tables. I was taking classes. I had the agent, the auditions, the works. And then
right around 2020, just as the pandemic was hitting and taking a lot of that away anyway. I was also in a position where I just couldn't wait tables anymore. I just couldn't do it. And I needed something different. And I had a friend who was a content writer, and she told me a little bit about what that was like. And I was like, I'm a pretty good writer. I've been a comedian for a long time. I can give this a shot. And yeah, I just kind of jumped on in, got a couple of freelance gigs, found out it was
definitely doable. All the skills that I had developed as an actor and a comedian about connecting with an audience, figuring out what somebody's really looking for from you and then serving that, served me really well as a marketer as well. So I got a bunch of freelance gigs as that was kind of ratcheting up. I realized that freelancing maybe wasn't for me. And that's when I found an in-house job here at Impact Networking. And the same thing kind of applied. All the skills I've learned as an actor, producing my own work applied here. And I've just had a...
hell of a career since then. I've been promoted a couple times since then and now I'm the director of copy and content and impact networking.
Benjamin Ard01:44 — I love it. That's incredible. Well, Emma, it was so cool when we were emailing back and forth about the subject. You mentioned storytelling, but not the typical how to be a better storyteller in the traditional sense. But really you have this cool opinion that people almost have forgotten what storytelling is and like what the basics mean. So we're going to dive into that today. I think this is going to be cool. So
Emma Lieberman02:02 — Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Ard02:08 — When you say, like in the email, you said it's over exalted and marketing the storytelling. What do you mean by that? But how did we get to a place where it's kind of lost its meaning when it comes to storytelling?
Emma Lieberman02:18 — Yeah. So the first thing I'll say before I like turn everybody off and they just stop listening is that of course storytelling is crucial, right? It's intrinsic. It's the very heartbeat, the blood of what marketing is. If marketing is meant to sell without a salesperson in the room, if it's meant to connect with somebody and convince them to take an action, storytelling does that. It's crucial. And I mean, like you mentioned,
This very podcast has had three separate episodes in 2026 alone about storytelling. So we all know that it's important.
We are also in a world where marketing is difficult to defend and everybody needs to be ahead of the curve and optimizing. And that's how storytelling has become a buzzword or like a strategy. And that's where I think people lose me a little bit because the idea of storytelling as a strategy is like calling breathing a strategy for living. Like, duh, of course it's part of it. But if it's a strategy, then it has to be optimized and measured. And it has to be like,
like continuously improved, but storytelling is not a science, it's a craft. There are formulas and frameworks that help you improve your craft, but they're tools, they're not the whole solution. So we found ourselves as marketers, as business people in this place where we're trying to defend it as strategy and optimize the process and make it better always. And then as artists, because all of us get into this because we love it, right? Like this is not the highest paying job. If we cared about that, we'd go into finance.
We get into this because we love storytelling and craft. So we're constantly at odds trying to figure out how do we get the good stuff in, but also meet business needs. And that leads to an over-reliance on frameworks, I think. It leads to us telling bad stories, compromising the quality of our storytelling because we're giving into folks who need it to be a sales tool. it becomes a story with like two sentences about a character and then it's like, and then he found our quick action product.
And that's not a story. We're beating audiences overhead with CTAs. So that leads to folks who haven't studied the craft not being able to tell the difference between real stories and branding or any other kind of writing and marketing. And I mean, honestly, like people, most people hate marketing and stuff like this is why the idea of story is strategy. no, it's just, it's part of marketing. It's part of connection. It's a craft. And that kind of gets lost.
Benjamin Ard04:30 — I love
that. I love that. And first and foremost, the passion that you have for the subject is super apparent. I love it. The energy you got into this because you love it, the storytelling side of things. And you're absolutely right. Like we have brought in the call to actions and the brand and all of those different components that have kind of muddied the waters of storytelling. So I guess the next question really is like, what's the difference?
Emma Lieberman04:31 — Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Benjamin Ard04:55 — Between like a brand that's not quite getting it right and people actually telling genuine stories. What does that look like?
Emma Lieberman05:04 — Mm-hmm. So going back to like what a good story, what a story is. And I'm going to be so pretentious for a second, so I'm so sorry, bear with me. But like I'm literally going to pull from Aristotle, like the classics, the poetics. Like a story is a whole that has a beginning, a middle, and an end. It's narrative. It's something happens. It's the retelling of a series of events where something happens that makes the hero change. And
From my perspective, the ones that aren't quite connecting, what I'm seeing is like, these kind of two things. One is telling bad stories, which sure, it's a story. Johnny desperately wanted to be a skateboarder, but he was terrible at it. And then he found our smooth glide skateboard wheels and he put them on and now he's the best skater in the world and has 15 girlfriends. Like sure, that's a story. Like it sucks, but you know, fine.
It's not the kind of thing that people like, but it's a bad story. So we're telling that. The other thing that we're doing is conflating storytelling with branding. Right? So you mentioned brand is like something that is not quite connecting. And the way I see it is like a story should be part of a brand. Your brand should have a key story that shows like your values and what you care about while you're in business in the first place. Right. But there's a difference in my mind between the story and the storyteller.
And when you conflate those things, it's so easy to like just talk about yourself. Here's what I believe in. Here's my mission. Here's my values. And call out a story. And it's not. Nothing has changed. Nothing is new. There's not been a series of events. But when you conflate those things, it's hard to tell the difference.
Benjamin Ard06:28 — I love that. That makes so much sense. I like, and this wasn't pretentious in any way, shape or form. You're right. A story has a beginning, middle, and an end. And you're right. I think that sometimes we get lost as marketers saying, Hey, I'm telling stories. Like it's got a beginning, middle, and an end. The character went from here to there. And even the, the hero's journey, the story brand, all that kind of stuff, we got them to the end. Right. So I guess.
Emma Lieberman06:32 — Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Ard06:53 — the next question that I have, like if we're all technically telling stories and it's true and you're right, like often we should look at it as a craft and not a strategy. What actually makes a story something people remember? Like what, what are like the common traits of the best stories and how can we as brands and marketers actually start to tell these impactful stories?
Emma Lieberman07:03 — Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no, this is, I'm gonna go full craft for a second, but like it's all about the details, right? Cause people remember details. They connect with something really specific. A few years ago when Parasite won for best picture at the Oscars Bong Joon-ho and his acceptance speech was referencing Martin Scorsese and he was saying the most personal is the most creative, which is also very similar to what Carl Rogers writes in On Becoming a Person, which is what is most personal is most universal. But if you can pull those like really specific,
personal human details, then that's what people connect to and remember and resonate with. So in marketing, from my perspective, what that looks like is audience research, right? Like it's all about knowing who your audience is in extraordinary depth. Who are these people? Talk to them and talking to them and getting interviews and quoting them directly. It doesn't have to be creative writing. It has to be showing the audience back to themselves. So pulling those details about what they care about.
How did they get into this? How do they feel? What happens to them if they don't figure out this problem? How do they realize they were experiencing a problem? What's their personal inciting event? Taking all those real emotions that your audience is experiencing, all those real details about their own journeys, and then reflecting that in your storytelling, that's how you create stuff that your real audience goes, yep, that's me. These people get it. Like that's how people feel things and connect to stuff. Just that detail in storytelling.
It's like always the best stories are the ones that have like the right few details pulled out.
Benjamin Ard08:39 — Yeah,
I love it. And the inciting event story brand call out all that kind of stuff. I love it. Very cool. okay. So I think a lot of marketers are nodding their heads, myself included. like, yeah, I, I want, I want to bring the craft back in and all that kind of fun stuff, but like, I'm not quite sure how to do it all the time. Like I do have to have a call to action and this and that.
Emma Lieberman08:43 — yeah.
and
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Ard09:00 — Are there any brands or any companies that are doing this well? Like any good examples to kind of bring it back to like, Hey team, let me prove that this is the right way of doing things. By the way, here's a couple of examples of people doing it the right way. Do you have anything that you can share with the audience as far as examples go?
Emma Lieberman09:13 — Mm-hmm.
Absolutely, I've got several. So the first thing I'll call out, this is not a specific example, but just for ongoing inspiration, there are programs like Tribeca X as part of the Tribeca Film Festival, Tribeca Film Institute, that celebrates excellence in brand storytelling. So I think that's a really cool resource that I love checking out. But for more specific references for this for today, a couple. One is the company Grainger.
They do a really good job with this. Their YouTube is filled with client stories where they just go and ask, like, how are you using our tools? Like, how do you do what you do every day? It's not even about the Grainger tools. It's about what they're doing. They naturally will use the thing because they have to. It's part of their day-to-day life. And then the stories that Grainger is telling focus on literally what they do. Something like somebody who repairs the electrical poles that hold up all of our big electric wires.
How do you do that? How do you climb all the way up there and fix that? Just talks about what their life is like doing this, you know? People who go into...
Benjamin Ard10:12 — I would love
to actually watch that YouTube video 100 % because I'm so curious, like how do you not fall off? Like what's the safety precaution and all that?
Emma Lieberman10:15 — Mm-hmm.
Right?
No, that one, that one I always remember because it's like thrilling in that like it's it's so much less equipment than you think it is. Which. But listen, it's memorable. We're discussing it right now, and it's a great way to show off like who your clients on what they're doing. And then like you don't have to beat the audience over the head with like and they do it with Granger Duels like we know.
Benjamin Ard10:27 — Maybe I don't want to watch this video now.
Emma Lieberman10:42 — We see it. We know what channel we're watching this on. So that does a great job with it with client stories. I also want to call out a Volvo ad from last year. Volvo 100 % did not tell a story about a car. was about a couple who found out they're pregnant with their first child. And the mother-to-be goes to pick up groceries for a nice dinner. And the father-to-be calls his mom and talks about like,
everything he's excited about, about being a father, right? Like all of his hopes and his dreams for his unborn child, all of his fears about being a parent, the things that he's looking forward to, bringing them to school, like all the way up until graduating college, know, sleepovers and their friends and getting into fights and having to console their kid, like all this personal emotional stuff. And as the mother's going to get groceries, like you just kind of cut to this other woman in the car until the mother's about to cross the street.
and the person who's in this car is like driving forward and looking down at her phone and like just as they're about to collide, the Volvo safety features break the car and save the mother's life. And like it's not about the car, but I remember that in extreme detail because they got me attached to this mother and then how Volvo saved her. She's not even real. I still remember her.
Benjamin Ard11:49 — She'd reel to you at this point in time. Yeah. Dang.
Emma Lieberman11:50 — She's real. Exactly. Because it's so detailed. It's beautiful. absolutely.
There's one more I'm to throw out there. It's another ad. just like it's so detailed and so like full of personality. And it's not even showing a single human being. It does not show a single face. It's a Google ad from like 16 years ago. And you can tell us from 16 years ago because what they're advertising is Google.
search engine, like convincing people to Google stuff, which is hilarious today. But it's the Paris one. I love that one. Yeah, exactly. Listen, you already knew what I was talking about. it's my favorite, favorite out of all time. It's so cute. It's got so many little details.
Benjamin Ard12:13 — Please tell me it's the Paris one. Yes. Okay. Keep going. I love this. Yep.
Tell
the story. mean, we need to hear it from your perspective. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it's golden.
Emma Lieberman12:29 — So it's a love story told entirely through Google searches. So you see someone type in like study abroad programs in Paris and then like cafes nearby the Eiffel Tower and like, know, cafes nearby the Louvre and he misspells Louvre. So you see Google corrected for him. And then he's like, what does tu es très mignon mean? And he's like, this means you are very cute.
And then it's like, how to impress a French girl. And then like, you know, first date spots in Paris, where to buy chocolates. It shows him like typing in like water truffles. And then your relative has heard her, who is true foe. But like, you just kind of go through that. And then there's a turn where he goes like long distance relationship advice, backspace, jobs in Paris. And then it's like a flight. You can see the flight tracking, like churches in Paris. And then there's a pause. I'm literally tearing up. my God.
There's pause on that that says, to assemble a crib. And what a beautiful love story, so simple, has so much personality, entirely just a Google search screen. How'd they do it? I don't know. I'm in awe every day.
Benjamin Ard13:25 — Well, and you're right, like no faces, no names, no nothing. It was 100 % telling a story and you're like, okay, I get it. I get where Google played a role in that story and I didn't care about Google at all. I cared about the story. But you're like, wow, Google does play a role in everyone's life. That's incredible.
Emma Lieberman13:29 — Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Exactly. It's not beating anybody over the head with it. It's entirely character driven. It has so many details about who they are, how they're using this tool, their personality, how they feel, what they're experiencing, what's making them realize they need it. And it just, it's just there. It's just serving the need naturally connected to these characters that we care about.
Benjamin Ard13:59 — That's so cool. All right, Emma, we're almost out of time. I have loved this. Thank you for taking us back to the basics, reminding us what stories are all about, how we as brands can actually tell authentic, real stories that make an impact on the company, but don't have to have the beat you over the head, call the action, click on my link by now kind of an idea. I think that's so important for anyone listening today who's thinking, man, I need to be better at that. What's some tactical advice?
Emma Lieberman14:02 — Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Benjamin Ard14:27 — for them to start changing their stories, writing better stories, improving their marketing in general to follow this philosophy.
Emma Lieberman14:34 — So this is like so weirdly specific, but like we were saying earlier, nobody gets into this because they are neutral on storytelling. Nobody gets into this because they don't care about craft. We're all here for a reason we know about great storytelling. So it's more about how do we do it in a way that still serves the business so that you have the space to do what you really need to do instead of people looking over your shoulder and trying to stuff other things in there.
So I say we take a patron Granger's book and start with client stories. Like no sales team has ever said no to more client stories, use cases, case studies. And it's a great way to tell real stories, focusing on the client. Everybody will love when you get details about who they are and what they're going through. There's still room to throw in just like a little bit of detail about the product if you really need to without compromising the whole story. But it's a great way to just get more storytelling into your brand, into your business.
And then as you're showing that working, it's easier to then make the argument to put it elsewhere as well. But yeah, just start with telling the client stories that already exist. Just makes it so much easier.
Benjamin Ard15:31 — I love it. That's incredible. Emma, thank you so much for the time and everything today. For anyone wanting to continue the conversation and reach out online, how and where can they find you?
Emma Lieberman15:40 — Yeah, honestly, LinkedIn's your best bet. I can be a little bit slow there sometimes, but I always come back eventually, within a couple days.
Benjamin Ard15:47 — Love it for anyone listening, scroll down to the show notes, regardless of what platform you're on. We will have Emma's LinkedIn profile linked right there. Click on the link, connect with Emma. Say you came from the podcast. Thank Emma for the awesome podcast episode. I really do appreciate it. Emma again, thank you for the time and insights. This has been great today.
Emma Lieberman16:05 — Thank you so much for having me. It's been super fun.
