Benjamin Ard00:00 — Welcome back to another episode of Content Amplified. Today I'm joined by Wes. Wes, welcome to the show.
Wesley Quock00:05 — Hey, great to see you, man.
Benjamin Ard00:06 — Yeah. Wes, I'm excited. Your background is awesome. The conversation's gonna be really, really cool. I've been excited about recording this episode for a while now. This is gonna be really cool, but before we dive in, Wes, let's get to know you. Let's get to know your background, your work history, so the audience knows who you are. If you don't mind sharing a little bit about that, that'd be awesome.
Wesley Quock00:26 — Sure, no problem. I've been in the creative realm for, gosh, over 30 years so far. Started off way back in small boutique design agencies doing branding for banks and Aspen Skiing Company way back when, and then have been in the high tech world for the last twenty six years or so, working for both huge enterprise level corporations as well as basically startups. And so just doing a wide range of different activities. I've kind of grown with the industry and whatever was needed from a creative standpoint. So I've done not only print design, event design, also video production, social media design, just pretty much everything I needed to do to keep moving with the industry. I'm currently at a company called ExtraHop. We're in cybersecurity. I've been in cybersecurity for about ten years. My team is the brand experience team. So I handle everything from the creative standpoint as well as manage our web team. So all of our brand channels basically fall under my purview.
Benjamin Ard01:26 — Love it. That's awesome. So, Wes, what we're gonna dive into today, and I love the way you kind of phrase this. You have such a cool variety of background experiences, the artist, the music, everything that you know and love and have done for your whole career. But you've seen the changes happen over time with every new technology, things that are changing the creative industries as well. And you also said this cool statement about AI, that it's really relevant, but it also could be like a mortal threat to creativity as well. And I've never heard that phrase. I love it. I'm giving you credit for this phrase. I love to give credit to people for phrases. So we're gonna coin it for you and give you full credit for that.
Wesley Quock02:08 — I'll copyright that tomorrow.
Benjamin Ard02:10 — I love it. Love it. We can do it right now. It's great. So with that said, you've been working in the industry for a long time and love the creative side of things. So before we even touch on AI and that kind of stuff, what have you seen throughout the years, and how do you know that something is actually making a difference or it's going to stick around versus maybe the things that are just noise and may just be a slight distraction for a little while?
Wesley Quock02:33 — Yeah, well, in my opinion, there's really been three major disruptors that have happened for the creative and content world over my career so far. One was the big move to digital, right? I think this was a huge thing, and it's kind of a large sort of banner thing. And this includes the end of the print production workflow with the rise of companies like Adobe, as well as the internet boom, as more and more people began to consume their media online. And of course, all the secondary fallout that came from that, right? The move of companies to offshore creative talent, because now they could. There's a globalization of creative talent and production, as well as a devaluation of content at scale. Now, all of a sudden, people had access to everything. People started to get things for free, right? As websites started to offer stuff, suddenly we started to see content being devalued slowly a little bit through the years.
I'd say the second major big disruptor has been really social media and the birth of smartphones. From a creative standpoint, social media has had a huge impact on not only how we consume the content, but the kinds of content we consume, right? I think it's changed everything to much shorter form. We're really more of a meme culture now, and smartphones have obviously accelerated that whole scope of influence. There's the ubiquity of social media, everybody from your grand aunt to your five year old niece now has access to social media, like it or not. And then from a creative standpoint, suddenly everyone's a creator now, right? Now we all have the tools not only to create the content, but to distribute it at wide scale, globally, overnight. And then, as you kind of just mentioned briefly here, the big third disruptor is really AI. It's something that I think has just come up over the last, what, two or three years to really become a global sensation. So we'll probably get more into that too. But I think those three things have really begun to shape how people not only create, but again, the kinds of things that people want to see nowadays from a content standpoint.
Benjamin Ard04:36 — Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I love that. And seeing the trends, and it's so true, everyone has access to social media. Distribution has gone completely in a different direction than it once was.
Wesley Quock04:46 — Yeah.
Benjamin Ard04:47 — And you're right, it all kind of has led up to this moment in time with artificial intelligence. Like you said, everyone can be a creator now. What about AI, from what you've seen, kind of scares you? What fascinates you? What does it look like from your perspective as a creative who's been in the industry for this long?
Wesley Quock05:04 — Yeah, I mean, for me it is a little different from the other two disruptors, but it builds on it as well, right? It's interesting if you look at these movements. There's a lot of parallels. They all started with the best of intentions, global reach, accessibility, social connection, all that, right? But like it or not, all of them have been infiltrated and arguably even driven by some of our worst elements. You look at pornography, illicit activity, all that helped to drive these industries a little bit faster as well.
But again, my fascination with AI is really based on the amazing things that we can now do. It's incredible what can be done if it's used for good. The potential to learn, strategize and create is huge. I mean, I use it daily for a lot of different uses, right? I use it for research, copywriting, image creation, video production, editing, campaign strategy, all sorts of things that used to take me hours, if not days. It's given me access to information that I would not have otherwise been privy to, technical information, scientific. The thing is, of course, you always have to double check it, but it's amazing what you can actually have access to now.
But then again, as a creator, I'm also beginning to see how it's accelerating the devaluation and commodification of content, right? We're all starting to be drowned in slop. Again, as everyone begins to take on that creative role, anyone can generate pretty amazing visuals, music, video in minutes and just post it everywhere, right? It's becoming a struggle for creatives to really justify their jobs, which we'll get to a little later, I'm sure. But it's pretty sad when, as you sort of just break into the creative realm and become a creator, and anyone is, you lose the craft. You lose the whole sense of what went into all the stuff that we love to begin with, right? Bruce Springsteen played for years in small clubs to small audiences before he became the superstar that now AI is able to rip off. But that's something we're kind of losing sight of.
Which again kind of leads to another fear that I have, that legitimate creative vision is being ripped off wholesale, right? And this is all creative fields, whether it's music, technical writing and creative writing, commercial and fine art, all that content that we as creators over the years have been putting up on the internet with the promise of visibility, connection. That's how we're gonna build our name and our brand. All that content now is fair game for AI models to train on and to steal and manipulate. So how do we as creators get ahead of that? How do we still remain relevant when everyone has access to that kind of creative vision? And this doesn't even touch on the environmental impact that we're all seeing.
Benjamin Ard07:44 — Mm-hmm.
Wesley Quock07:44 — I mean, that's a whole nother story, another show, when you talk about data centers and all that. But I think there's a lot of great promise, just like any other technology, for AI. But again, I can't lose sight of that. I think that's the one thing. It's tough too. I think we as creators have to use it for good. That's the one thing, right? I think we have to use it responsibly. We have to use AI in a way that it's a good, legitimate tool for us to create with.
Benjamin Ard08:11 — Yeah, I love that. I love the balance that you're talking about here. Like the clear love for the artistry, the creative side of things, creating something that's inventive, brand new, the passion behind it, and yet not being afraid of the technology and really utilizing the technology to maybe drive that vision forward. I do know a lot of creatives are hesitant and people are afraid of the AI side of things and they haven't come really to adopt it yet and embrace it fully. What are your recommendations there for anyone listening who maybe isn't super excited about AI? Rightfully so. I mean, I used to like the platform Pinterest. I thought it was cool. I really like home renovation stuff, everything like that. I deleted my account after AI because everything I was seeing was fake. And I just decided, okay, well, that just ruined that platform for me. So I mean, that's a relevant, legitimate concern, but what's your advice to individuals who need maybe a little motivation to kind of hop on the train and maybe embrace at least some parts of AI?
Wesley Quock09:10 — Yeah, I mean, I think creatives are now, as I mentioned earlier, being forced to really justify what we do. We're really at an inflection point right now where AI is the shiny new technology and it's fascinating everybody, and everybody wants to get on board with that, or wants to avoid it, right? People are scared of it. Obviously, it's just there. It's the elephant in the room, no matter how we want to dance around it. But I think we as content creators really need to embrace the fact that it's here to stay, right? It's not gonna go away, like the internet's not going away. And we really need to find ways to ride this wave before it sinks us. I mean, we could still be that one folk singer still doing the cafe circuit while every other band is going electric and getting louder. But you better be freaking amazingly talented to stand out if you're gonna do that, right? Or you just have to be prepared to do something else to make a living while you do your art on the side.
I think as creators we really need to stick to our core values, really use our art and our vision and our voice for good. And good in that, not necessarily humanitarian good all the time, but good in the fact that we want to communicate. We want to still tell the stories. We still want to help to elevate a message of some sort. And really stick to those creative fundamentals of the craft, the strong storytelling, creating that visual impact with everything we do. If we can do that, then we can still develop the strong creative voices that AI will be able to amplify.
When you look at Photoshop and Illustrator back in the past, those didn't kill photography and illustration. In the hands of true artists, they've actually given us amazing new tools to do things we weren't able to do before. So AI is really kind of potentially a new medium. Kind of like when you look at screen printing or collage, back in the day they were kind of laughed at as sort of just scrap and easy to create garbage, more or less. But again, in the hands of people like a Picasso or a Warhol or a Rauschenberg, it can be elevated to a true art. It can be very powerful. I think there's a lot of potential there if you're able to see it as a tool, not as the creative vision, I guess. So it really is something that we still need to have within ourselves, and go through that same creative process to develop our art, whatever that might be, whether it's marketing or fine art, and AI can actually be a tool to help that, again, used responsibly.
Benjamin Ard11:28 — I love that. Okay. I love the embracing of AI in the right ways. On the flip side, the conversation started with, it has a potential to be a mortal threat to creativity.
Wesley Quock11:41 — Yeah.
Benjamin Ard11:41 — Where do you draw the line? And maybe where do you recommend other people draw the line? Where the risks are at? And maybe a part of the craft that we shouldn't get rid of, the parts that we need to hold on to and not let it just slip into artificial intelligence and let the computer take away our creativity. Where do you kind of draw that line?
Wesley Quock12:01 — Yeah, I would say first off, as far as how I view it as a mortal threat, I think it's not even just a mortal threat, honestly, to creators, but to us as a society in many ways. We're beginning to really see a huge tsunami of AI generated content, and I fear that we as a people, creative or not, begin to lose sight of what's good. We're all in some ways beginning to compromise our sense of wonder as everything becomes possible, right? We're already seeing it in the news cycle. Stories that might have captivated the public for weeks now come and go on an hourly basis. Music is being streamed on tiny phone speakers and ill-fitting ear buds. I know very few people who have stereo systems, right?
Taking that as an example, the craft of music production has changed. Everything's being produced in the box, in the computer. We've lost the art of setting up microphones in a live space, using the walls and the air as production elements, the compression that you get from reel to reel tape. Now, in the name of convenience, we're kind of settling on these faster modes of production. And that's happening also on the content creation side of things. I can do everything with a lineup of different AI tools, if I can afford all the different subscriptions and all the credits. We're all one man bands now as far as creators. We're doing our own video production, we're doing our own design, we're doing our own copywriting. We're losing that interaction that's critical to creation.
We creatives often just like to toil away in our studios and only show the masterpieces to the public after we've got it done, right? So a lot of what we do, all those rough sketches, the first drafts, no one sees the work and the craft that goes into that. The hours of work, the sweat, the process of moving from one rough idea to that final masterpiece. So to any non-artist, AI is really a great equalizer. Now a 14 year old can create an animated scene just in the style of Miyazaki without even lifting a pencil. They don't know what Miyazaki went through to develop that style.
Benjamin Ard14:03 — Yeah, yeah.
Wesley Quock14:04 — But on the same token, they're never going to achieve what Miyazaki did in his storytelling, right? When you look at that, it's basically like a comedian doing an impression of a celebrity. They're capturing a voice, they're capturing a sense of something without actually being that thing. Because I think we as artists still need to have that craft. I think that we can't forget that it does take time sometimes to develop the right thing. I use AI as sort of my support creative team, for lack of a better word. My junior copywriter, my creative intern.
Benjamin Ard14:38 — Yeah.
Wesley Quock14:39 — I write a lot of what I do still as far as creative briefs, I still do the sketches, I still think things out before I even turn to AI to begin to say, well, let's do a little bit of research in here, to test the ideas, to maybe build on a few things here and there. But I think if you rely on it to just enter a prompt to create something, create a logo for me, that's not gonna get you to the results that really fine-tuning that craft would get you.
When I was in art school, my thesis project, I took a class, I went to California College of Arts and Crafts, CCAC. And the thesis class was taught by a pretty prominent designer named Michael Vanderbyle. And the thesis project was not a long four page creative brief. It was basically just one word. He would just give you one word at the beginning of the semester, and you had to develop an entire creative project around that. And it could be anything. The only thing that was a requirement was that it had to be visual, right? You couldn't just do a spoken word piece. And it really made you think. It made you think of different angles to the story, different ways you can show it, different ways you can tell it. And I think it really forced you to do the research, flex that creative muscle, flex that sort of vision development. I still do that in everything I do now, right?
Interestingly, a few years ago, for the company I was working for, we did a sales kickoff, and my team always did the full creative strategy for these events. Usually it's something like, I'll level up, or accelerate, and all that stuff. But it's funny, they gave us one word and it was just next. And I was like, that's all you're giving me? And my team was like, that's it? What else do they want to say? I was like, well, this is great. This means we can take it and run with it, right? Let's be creative. And we figured it out. So we developed a whole strategy around the next tool, the next problem, the next customer, everything about the next. And that's really the potential and promise of this coming year for the sales team. And I think that sort of exercise is still important for creatives to do, right? I mean, you're not gonna type in next as a prompt into an AI tool and have it come up with some sort of strategy for you. You might be able to kind of craft something to get you there, but you still need to sit down and have a vision for it to be any good.
Benjamin Ard16:57 — Love that. Okay. Couple follow-up questions. I'm going to throw you some curveballs. I'm super fascinated. Number one, what was your one word for that thesis class?
Wesley Quock17:05 — It was power.
Benjamin Ard17:06 — Ooh.
Wesley Quock17:07 — And there were some amazing ones. I gotta say, I had one classmate who actually crafted a series of tombstones and they did the power of death.
Benjamin Ard17:18 — Hmm.
Wesley Quock17:19 — You walked into the studio space and you just saw these tombstones in the middle of the space, and their presentation was about how powerful death can be from a cultural standpoint. And that's the one thing Vanderbyle would always kind of push you on, right? It was never just like, death is powerful because it makes you really sad when someone dies. It's no, why? What goes into that? So it was interesting, because that was a strong visual and there was a strong story behind it. I'm trying to remember what exactly it said, but I'm sure it was a whole industry thing. Mine was the power of medicine.
Benjamin Ard17:52 — Mm.
Wesley Quock17:52 — So I set up on the walls a series of medicine cabinets that you had to go up to, and I think it just said mind, body and soul. And you open them up and each of them had different parts of the story. So the first medicine cabinet was mind. It was the idea that, how do we conceive of our health? How do we conceive of medicine and what it can do? And just our beliefs that our doctors should always be right, that we trust in our healthcare system. Then the next thing was body, which you opened up. And it was really about how, because of the power of the pharmaceutical business, we are forced to take a lot of supplements and pills for every ache and pain, and how there's been a huge industry that's kind of been driven up on that trust that they've built, that we trust these health professionals. And then soul, the last one, was all about holistic medicine and the idea that if we get back to just finding our core, finding our energy, getting back in touch with circulating our chi, to get a little hippie on here. But the idea that,
Benjamin Ard18:54 — Yeah.
Wesley Quock18:54 — I think that there's still a belief that we can heal ourselves if we just let it, and don't trust the industry to do it. So there's a power to that too. So again, it's just the three aspects of power within how we view medicine.
Benjamin Ard19:08 — I love that. So, what's so cool about everything you're talking about, and I have this interesting belief, and I'll tell you a random story. I apologize because it's a weird one. Growing up, my friends all got into video games. And so obviously, as a kid, I played them. I can't play them anymore. For some reason, I feel so frustrated. I should be doing something more with my time. I should be playing with AI, who knows what. But I followed this interesting thing. When I first got into video games, it was old school DOS computer games. Text adventure, like for me, beautiful storytelling. And there were some creators at LucasArts who made some of my favorite games that just had the best stories. And years later, they went and created a game in this old school style. Now, I loved it because they showed the building of the game. They built a whole documentary series showing individuals building the different parts of the games, doing the voice acting, and the individuals they brought in. They had Elijah Wood come in and do the voice acting for a part. And for me, I didn't actually like the game, but I loved the documentary. I loved seeing the building of the game. I feel like there is something to storytelling and the uniqueness. Like we talked about, only showing the master final product. Do you feel like that's why behind the scenes content has started to pick up, where people show here's the process, the artistry that I've put into this, not only to prove it's not AI, but also to really show the passion behind it, where you now appreciate the end product that much more? Do you feel like that's a trend you're seeing that businesses maybe should adopt as well?
Wesley Quock20:40 — It's an interesting take. I mean, yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. I think that people need to see behind the door and see what goes into it, because that to me is fascinating. And we as a culture are captivated by stories, right? That's why Antiques Roadshow is so popular, right? It's not just a cup, it's a cup that was once held by Leonardo da Vinci as he was talking to the king of Spain, whatever it might be, right? When you create the mystique, the intrigue around something, it becomes special, right?
I'm in my house right now. My mom passed away a couple of years ago and she always loved to travel. And I would always have her go around her house. Everything in her house had some story about, you know, some tribal chieftain gave me this necklace when I was on a log boat in Papua New Guinea, right? Or, this is a piece of art that I had to buy at the top of a mountain in Tibet. So that just imbues it with a certain power in and of itself. It's almost like when you look at those Harry Potter wands, right? All the little things in the handle kind of give it special powers. That's kind of what this storytelling is.
I think there's something that could be done there as far as talking to the craft or the creation of the piece that's important to do now. From a corporate marketing standpoint, how does that translate, right? I can't tell you, here's how I produced this video of this interview with a customer, right? Nobody cares about that. But I think that same kind of talent to tell stories goes into, why are we making this product? Why are we doing what we do? Is it just because everyone else is doing it? You know, we're an AI company now because everyone's doing AI. I mean, look at Allbirds, right? There's a power to that. And if people understand that, that's where a true brand begins to live and breathe, I think. And that's something you can't take away. That's something that other people aren't gonna rip off. People will rip off taglines, people will rip off visuals, people will rip off ways you do things, but if you have a strong story, that's where you're going to be able to have that true power. And I think again, if you're talking just from a marketing standpoint and generating content, that's where I think a lot of it has to go. You have to focus on talking to the founders of a company, talking to the engineers that do it on a day to day basis, talking to the salespeople that go out and talk to other customers on a day to day basis. What makes what we do special, and why do you want to do what you do, right? That's the important thing, I think. And oftentimes that's a strong story. I think we can focus on that, then we develop the craft on how to actually do it.
Benjamin Ard23:20 — Yeah. I love that. Okay, one final question. And sorry, we're going a little bit longer than normal on this episode, but I am just loving this. So hopefully you're okay with that.
Wesley Quock23:28 — Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Benjamin Ard23:30 — I like to end every podcast episode with tactical advice. So from your years of experience, from you understanding the craft and the beauty of storytelling and artistry, how do you recommend someone today who's listening to this episode, who's thinking to themselves, yes, I need to embrace AI, but I also need to embrace the story. I want to find the right line. I need to just start doing something. What would you recommend? What would you say to that individual that they can get started this month and really start to move along this pathway, not shying away from AI, but also not giving up your creative abilities to it? What can they actually start to do?
Wesley Quock24:09 — Yeah, I had another design teacher back in the day who said, whenever you start a design project, stay away from design annuals, stay away from any design magazines, any of these sorts of things. Clear your mind, read a book, see an old movie, cook a new recipe, write in your journal, do something, take a walk, talk to friends. I think we have to find other ways to be inspired. I mean, I'm just as guilty of saving, copying, pasting every useful prompt that comes off on LinkedIn or Facebook that you see, enter this prompt and you'll get these amazing results. It's like, I'm gonna get your results, right?
And so I think it's critical to be able to kind of still stay inspired from outside and find that voice, find that sort of special way that you want to see things. Be you, right? That's the amazing thing. Don't be Wes, don't be Ben, don't be anybody else out there that you admire. Sure, admire them, but also understand you admire them because they are who they are.
And I think if you begin to do that and begin to interact with other people, however creepy it sounds, treat AI like another person. I treat my AI tools as, you know, if I'm in Runway, if I'm in Artlist or something like that, if I'm generating some sort of video content, I treat it like a video producer. So I create the brief, or the prompt, around how I'd write a brief for them. I just try to find ways to kind of rig the system in a way that will give you a little bit more of a human touch to it, in a way that can help. So really embrace it in that sense as a tool, as a support system.
But also, don't get down. Get out there, be creative, do what you do, whatever it is, right? If it's playing a sport, be creative there. You can be creative in many different ways. And I think, as we just mentioned before, everything has its stories. So learn stories, learn how to tell a story, learn how to tell a joke, that's an important thing, right? And that's a lost craft. It's like that old Mark Twain quote, I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one, something like that. But yeah, that's the whole thing. Just get it out there and create those rough drafts. Create those firsts. Don't think you're gonna be perfect right out the gate. Don't think you're just gonna, in one stroke, have the Mona Lisa. You have to be able to develop that voice, develop that craft, and find something that's different, right? As best you can out there. Stand out.
Benjamin Ard26:33 — I love that. That's amazing. Wes, thank you. On a very personal note, this is exactly what I needed to hear. I am caught up in AI every single day. And I just love the passion for telling authentic stories and embracing the AI as a part of it, and not shying away from it, and not losing the humanity of it all and what makes creating something special. So thank you. I think this is amazing. Really do appreciate it. For anyone listening who wants to reach out and connect with you online, how and where can they find you?
Wesley Quock27:05 — Well, I mean, obviously LinkedIn's a big thing. I'm happy to connect and you can follow me there as well. Just Wesley Quock, Q U O C K. And you can look me up at ExtraHop as well. But yeah, that'd probably be the main thing there.
Benjamin Ard27:18 — Love it. And we will link to everything inside the show notes. So if you're listening to this today, scroll down, look at the show notes, click on the link, tell Wes hello, tell him you came from the podcast, all that fun stuff. Wes, again, thank you, thank you, thank you. Really do appreciate your time. And honestly, just all the stories and all the perspectives and your expertise today. Really do appreciate it.
Wesley Quock27:36 — Yeah. Thank you, Ben. I appreciate the time, and this is an amazing podcast. I've learned a lot from it.
Benjamin Ard27:40 — Thank you.
