Jonathan Murray00:02 — Your job is to show a little glimpse of what it's like to work with you. And that's where we're seeing conversions really happen, is when you bridge that gap between the issue and yourself, and that's really coming in and building trust as effectively as possible.
Benjamin Ard00:41 — Welcome back to another episode of Content Amplified. Today I'm joined by Jonathan. Jonathan, welcome to the show.
Jonathan Murray00:46 — Thank you, Ben. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.
Benjamin Ard00:48 — Yeah, Jonathan, I'm excited. This is going to be a ton of fun. This is a subject that I'm really looking forward to because as a producer of content and consumer of content, I think this is really, really important. But before we dive into it, Jonathan, let's let the audience get to know you a little bit. Tell us a little bit about your background, your work history, your career, all that kind of fun stuff.
Jonathan Murray00:55 — Thank you, thank you. And thank you for having me again, Ben. I appreciate it. So just a little bit about myself. I have, I know, I'm getting old, like over 15 to 20 plus years of sales and marketing background. Done everything from door to door sales, which is insane. Don't recommend it, but if you need it, you can do it. I've done some retail sales. I've done B2B sales, as well as leadership and having, you know, 50 people working for me. And then I've done small business consulting on my own when it comes to marketing, social media management. And currently in my role right now, I'm a marketing director for a company called Legends Legal Marketing where we specifically work with law firms in multiple niches. We're a boutique firm, meaning that we can respond quickly and make changes quickly. And we only work with firms that we feel we can really get a good return on investment for. On top of that, I am a marketing strategist as well as a social media strategist for the company as well. So we have some great topics that Ben and I worked on. I'm just happy to talk to him today.
Benjamin Ard02:16 — That's gonna be so cool. I also love how you talked about the business that you're working for where you only work with companies where you feel like you can provide value. And I think that that's such a cool lens. Like as soon as I hear someone say that, I'm like, they probably turn away businesses and that makes me like wanna work with them even more. I think that's super cool.
Jonathan Murray02:25 — Yeah, I mean for us, we just really want to when we have our consultations is understanding what our clients not only want to do now, but maybe what they want to do in five years from now, right? So if someone's like, hey, I want to put my feet up on the yacht, you know, and in five, you know, five years, I only want to be fishing with my grandkids. It's like, okay, can we make this happen for you in the next five years, you know, based off the scope and where you feel comfortable investing? And if so, then yeah, we're going to make it happen and we work hard and we're very diligent. If not, then we might make some recommendations on things they can do, or maybe we even recommend it to a partner. It might have more capacity to focus on it. So it's not just about us and growing. It's about how can we help you grow and reach not just company and revenue goals, but your life goals.
Benjamin Ard03:18 — That ties perfectly into the subject for today. What we're going to talk about is trust-based content and how it's winning in today's market. What you just talked about was authenticity in its truest form. But when we talk about trust-based content, you know, obviously there's artificial intelligence and all that kind of stuff going on. Let's maybe kind of set what we're talking about today. So Jonathan, what does trust-based content actually look like? Why is it different than other content? And why is it actually winning today?
Jonathan Murray03:47 — So trust-based content, what it really is is that I always tell people that your client or customer is the movie star, right, of the movie, and you are the supporting cast, right? So trust-based is about talking to what that person needs, how you can help them in that moment, understanding, showing empathy, and then also showing authority in your ability to help them, right? So when you're talking about yourself, pointed towards that person and how you can be a guide for them through that process. Particularly when we're talking about legal, and this could really be for anything, but when you're talking about legal, someone got in a car accident, they're worried, they're scared, they don't know who to turn to, they Google car accident lawyer, you come up because you have great marketing, and then they get to your website, and then it speaks like a resume. And it's all about you and how great you are and everything you've done and it's nothing about what they're going through. That person also has up maybe two or other, one or two other websites. So at that point, you've already lost them because you're not talking to what they're feeling. The other website does the opposite. It's, hey, you're going through this situation. We understand how you might feel. You may feel alone and worry. Your next step is this, this, and this. These are things you need to be concerned about doing. This is what you can do right now, right? If you need help, we're here, reach out to us. That is gonna convert someone much higher because you've already built trust. And that's the thing about marketing. People don't know who you are, they know what you do. Your job is to show a little glimpse of what it's like to work with you. And that's where we're seeing conversions really happen, is when you bridge that gap between the issue and yourself, and that's really coming in and building trust as effectively as possible.
Benjamin Ard05:32 — I love that. That's so cool. It's getting to know someone. It's almost like if you were actually talking to them in person, what would that conversation look like as opposed to the marketing speak? So from your perspective, what holds back business owners and CEOs from like actually doing this, showing up authentically online, being vulnerable, building trust, all of that? Why aren't people doing that as much as they should?
Jonathan Murray05:40 — I'm gonna say this in a disrespectful way, but it's just ego, right? Like we're built to like work hard and show a particular side of ourselves that we've made it and we're successful. A lot of times we're trying to show people that started at the bottom with us and maybe they're moving up where we are compared to them. And a lot of times the content is more towards those people, right? So a lot of times you see content is built for colleagues, right? And hey, look at my site and see who I am and where I am compared to maybe where we were when we were in law school. The problem is that your colleagues aren't your clients, right? So that's where we see the issue how people show up. So there's this fear of showing up authentic, which is what you need to do for the client because you're worried about the people that may judge you when they're not even the people that you're trying to service, right? So it's getting our lawyers specifically at Legends to be like, it's okay, roll your sleeves up, right? When we first bring people on, we do photo shoots. And a big part of photo shoot is yes, you're going to be at your desk, you have your tie and stuff on, but then there's going to be a picture of you maybe on your farm with your cow, right, or on your farm with your family. There's going to be a picture of you with your sleeves rolled up, no tie on, and you're grabbing the document which shows you in the process. You don't have time to be worried about what you look like because you're trying to get paperwork done, right? That storytelling is a big part of the process and where that wall gets broken down very quickly because you go from being a business or a lawyer to a person, right? And that just seems to be difficult for people to accept and acknowledge, but it's all they have to do to break that wall down.
Benjamin Ard07:34 — I love that. That's cool. It reminds me, I was sitting in a conference once and there was this keynote speaker who was in like, the highest levels of Navy SEALs. And he's like, Hey, let me show you something about ego. Like you're talking about here. He's like, here's my LinkedIn resume, you know, like D1 athletes, you know, ranked top of top of my class, all that kind of stuff. He's like, let me tell you the real story. Do you want athlete? I showed up and after one practice quit and I never went back again. And, you know, top of my class, the class had 20 people in it in a 10 person town, kind of an idea and all of that stuff. And just like, it's like, he told the real story and all of a sudden he went from this polished, unrecognizable speaker to a human where I was like, Oh, I'm going to listen to this guy cause he's normal and I can relate. And I love what you're saying here about the trust there. That's awesome. So what's the difference between content that works and content that repels? I mean, obviously there's polished and unpolished content and all that kind of fun stuff, but how does it work? I mean, obviously you can have polished content that works and does it work. You can have unpolished content still that works and does it work. What's kind of the difference in what works and what doesn't?
Jonathan Murray08:32 — Like I think if you're doing polished content and maybe it's like you're running, you know, a static ad or, you know, a graphic ad or something like that. And it's, you know, a very nice looking, you know, graphic and it highlights who you are. It highlights next steps. I think that's great. Cause that's about building brand, right? But I think what we're seeing is that the unpolished is working because A, there's so much polished content with AI graphics and AI videos going up. And it can go up so quickly, right? The other side of it is that not everyone had access or understood AI. Now a tool to make it very easy for anyone to pick it up. So you may not have the best quality going out even of that polished content. So now people just want to see people, right? And we just want to like hear from people. So like, to me, the reason some polished content doesn't do well is because it reflects that facade of being perfect and being in a perfect situation and that I'm perfect. This is why you should listen to me. Versus if you see content from like Gary Vee, right? Like all the money that Gary Vee has, his content looks like he's still doing like talking head videos, right? And it like, you know, it might just have some captions in there. There's no branding, there's no brand name on it and stuff like that. And people are sticking around forward more because it feels like it feels like me and you right now is just a one-on-one conversation. And I feel like I'm on FaceTime with a friend, right? So I think that's the direction we're going more in is that talking heads are gonna do more and more better. The amount of like AI content that comes out, you're gonna see the other side of that. And then I also think that content that just tells a story and gives you background versus immediately saying this is why you should do this is hey, this is the situation, this is what I've seen, or this is what I feel, this is why I think this is important to you, then it's the call to action. That content is gonna resonate more with people, because you feel like you're getting advice from a friend versus a teacher or someone trying to be an authority and tell you why, right? So I'm telling people, do unpolished content 70 % of the time versus your polished content, and I promise you'll get more reach than you ever have.
Benjamin Ard10:58 — I love that. Okay. That's a great framework that I love the numbers there. So where and when and how should I actually use AI? What's crossing the line? Cause clearly lines have been crossed, but like what should I do with AI to keep it authentic, to keep building trust, but avoid what a lot of the market is doing and producing a ton of like overly polished, you know, non trustworthy content.
Jonathan Murray11:01 — I think AI works really well as an assistant, right? I would tell you the best people I think that can use AI are people who have a teaching framework or mindset where they just kind of always trust but verify, right? And that's what a teacher does. A teacher trusts you to like answer or make a decision, but they verify to make sure it's correct and to help you. So that's how AI works best is to take up a lot of those back-end tasks that would take forever. Research coding is really big right now for people. But even doing your first analysis, you can even use it for copy. It's kind of like if I'm in a newsroom, you're going to write the copy. But then I'm the editor-in-chief, and I'm going to make sure that it's right. I'm going to flag everything that's wrong with it and then tell you why so that you can rewrite it. So that's why I think AI does well. What I think is struggling is that AI is starting to become people's personality, right? It's doing all the writing for everyone. People are even using AI to reply back to people. And I'm talking about just replying back on social media, right? Where someone does a post and someone's going into AI to get a reply to that content when it's supposed to be more alive and in the moment. And I feel like people are losing their identity by using AI, which is starting to make them look like a bot. And because you start to do that, the systems recognize you as a bot more than a person, and people will just glaze over your content and move past it. Also, we pick up signals really quick. Even if you're not an AI strategy expert, we start to pick up the signals of what's AI content versus what's not AI content. So someone can tell when your LinkedIn post was written by you and written by someone else, because AI uses the same wording and you know three messaging, you three sentence messaging and all that stuff. So no matter what you do is going to come off that way. So be unpolished, be okay with not using the biggest words quote unquote or like sounding the smartest because you in that process you will sound like yourself and that will draw people in. So use the tech but don't depend on the tech to be you, still be yourself.
Benjamin Ard13:30 — I love that. That's awesome. There's so many places I could go, but we only have a few minutes left. So I want to kind of reach out into the future and I want to ask you this question. So almost like if you could tell the future, if you knew where it was going, where do you think content, human led content in particular is going to go with AI? Obviously there's trends you're talking about human unpolished authentic, trustworthy content. Where is content going and how do we kind of prepare ourselves for the future?
Jonathan Murray14:02 — Well, we're already seeing it. It's funny though, because I feel like it's weird, man. It's kind of like how clothing is going back to the 90s, right? I feel like we're starting to see that when it comes to content where I think AI works well in filling in some gaps for you, right? Where you just, you don't have time. Maybe you need to plug a couple of things in, but I see it being less content, but like more authentic, right? I think that instead of you posting every day because you have to, because you have to feed the algorithm, you may not need to post as often, right? But when you do post, that content is gonna become where it's going to last longer, right? I'm seeing content when I post on LinkedIn and I've been testing it where if I do a AI type of post where maybe AI created the image or even if it created the framework for the post and I edit it, it doesn't get as much reach. But if I just jump on and I say, man, this morning I was working out and it made me think about this and it went to this part of my mindset about marketing and how that helped, I get three times the impressions with no picture than I do with that polished content. So I think it's actually gonna be a fun time for everybody because you have the systems to help you kind of create the strategy. You can create a 30 day strategy in less than two minutes, but then you can go in and plug and play your own content and just put your phone up in front of you and it's going to get reached. And it's not only gonna get reached, it's gonna actually resonate with people because we already are overstimulated by fake content, right? So if you're comfortable just putting a phone in front of your face, you're gonna blast past people who are taking too long to put content up or they're on systems.
Benjamin Ard15:48 — I love that. And as a word of advice for someone who has hosted a podcast for a long time, the first few times you put your face in front of the camera, for most people, it's super awkward and that is totally fine. Just embrace it and eventually it becomes normal. We're all on cameras with computers and stuff for the most part, but you know, clicking the record button is a whole different level and you know, eventually you'll get over it, but everyone kind of goes through the process.
Jonathan Murray15:57 — Oh yeah, just put it up. I mean, like, as long as you think it resonates with one person, focus on one person. If you can help one person, then you did your job. Don't worry about going viral. I've seen people go viral and bring in no leads. I've seen people connect with a hundred people with a hundred views and bring in 20. So it's just about finding your right audience, connecting with them and being consistent.
Benjamin Ard16:35 — I love it. That's awesome. Jonathan, I love this episode, especially because I hope everyone takes this advice, uses it so I can actually get to know you and see the authentic messages, trustworthy content all over LinkedIn and everywhere I'm at. So I really do appreciate it. Jonathan, for anyone listening who wants to reach out and connect with you online, how and where can they find you?
Jonathan Murray16:40 — You guys can find us, Legends Legal Marketing. So it's legendslegalmarketing.com. And then I am Jonathan at Legends Legal Marketing, J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N. And you can also find me on LinkedIn, Jonathan Murray.
Benjamin Ard17:09 — I love it. For everyone listening, just scroll down to the show notes, regardless of what platform you're on. And you will see Jonathan's LinkedIn profile, the company profile, click on those links, connect with Jonathan there. Jonathan, again, this has been wonderful. Thank you for the time and insights today. Really do appreciate it.
Jonathan Murray17:25 — Thank you, Ben. I've been on a few podcasts, man, but you really, really make it easy and comfortable, man. It's a great conversation. So you got something nice here. Thank you too, my man.
Benjamin Ard17:32 — Well, thank you. I really do appreciate it. Love it. Have an awesome day.
