Benjamin Ard00:00 — Welcome back to another episode of Content Amplified. Today I'm joined by Vanessa. Vanessa, welcome to the show.
Vanessa Mbonu00:05 — Thank you for having me, Ben, excited.
Benjamin Ard00:07 — Yeah, Vanessa, this is going to be a fun conversation. I'm really excited for it. But before we dive in, let's let the audience get to know you a little bit. If you don't mind sharing for a second who you are, your background, work history, all that kind of fun stuff, that'd be great.
Vanessa Mbonu00:19 — Yeah, so I am Vanessa Mbonu. I am a marketing, I don't want to say extraordinary because that sounds a little too much, but.
Benjamin Ard00:28 — I think it's true. I'll say it for you. Extraordinary.
Vanessa Mbonu00:31 — That sounds a little, you know, bloated ego, but I'm a marketing subject matter expert specifically when it comes to social impact and civil rights, social justice. That is my domain. I've been working in and out of the nonprofit industry for a little over 15 years. Currently I'm the vice president of marketing at the NAACP, the nation's first and largest civil rights organization.
But I also have my own consultancy where I help small businesses, particularly small Black businesses, sort of get their content game together and get their marketing and communication strategy together to really have the impact that they need. And I also, I'm chronically online and so I'm always sort of like just figuring out what people are up to and like what's coming up next. And I'm actually working to stop doing that.
But I can't help but dissect everything I see online. And so I try as much as possible when I have the time and when I have the means to get offline and travel. But as you probably will see in this episode, I am a yapper. I like to run my mouth. So hopefully I say some things that are worth your while today.
Benjamin Ard01:39 — That's the whole point of the podcast is good conversations about marketing. It's good, you know, having a good conversation. Love it. Vanessa, I'm excited. So what we're going to dive into, and this was super cool, this is what you recommended we talk about in our emails back and forth: the shift from content as output to content as infrastructure. Now that can be in a lot of different things. When we say something like that, what are we talking about here is output versus infrastructure? Like what would you say the difference is there?
Vanessa Mbonu01:56 — Yeah, that's a really great question. And so early on in my career, we had this sort of leadership session where we were really trying to get the organization back on track and understand how we get from good to great. And one of the things our CEO said was that we focus a lot on output and not enough on outcome. And I felt that resonated with me because that's something I'd seen all across my career is
people are just doing things to check the box. And so you know that you have social media, you know that you have your email marketing and you're just like, I just need to get X amount of pieces of content out to satisfy that deliverable, to satisfy that need. And it drove me crazy because it's like, you're working so much harder, you're not working smarter. And what happened because you put that piece of content out? Nothing, it's not working. And so when you shift from thinking about social media content in general as an output and more infrastructure,
then everybody in the organization gets on board and realizes that goals need to be met. We have an objective, we have a goal, we're trying to get from point A to point B. And whether I am in programming, whether I am in policy, whether I'm in operations, I am working towards a greater good. I'm working towards something even more bigger than this menial task that I'm doing. And so how am I feeding into the content that is going to get people to discover us, to find us,
get deeper brand loyalty to really make sure that my mission, my vision, whatever it is, whether it's blockchain, whether it's civil rights, whether it's retail, that people are understanding that they're not just buying a product from me, that they're not just donating to my organization, but they are honestly, they're actually sort of getting aligned with my brand and my overall mission. So when I say going from
content from going from output to infrastructure, it's really a whole mindset change that we need. To really start thinking long term. We need to start thinking more impact driven rather than a trend here, a trend there, you know. Yeah, that's a long-winded answer.
Benjamin Ard04:02 — I love that. No, that's great. So it's not content for the sake of content. It's a means to help you accomplish something that you're trying to do. And it sounds like this is an organizational wide kind of a system. You mentioned all the different departments, people focused on all the different areas of the business. And it's the coordination piece that I love is so cool. Like we are collectively working towards something and cool.
Benjamin Ard04:28 — As a part of accomplishing this specific mission or specific outcome, we can use content as a lever as a part of that process. So when it comes to the org shift to be around that and the coordination and collaboration to know when to use content, when you shouldn't use content, what does that practically look like inside of the organization? How does that function almost differently than
Benjamin Ard04:56 — another blog post this week, you know? How does that look in the org?
Vanessa Mbonu04:57 — Yeah, exactly. So to say what I was trying to say even a little bit better, it's getting the organization to think more strategically and less tactically. And so when you think about content as output, you're thinking about it tactically in that you do need that blog post, you do need that social media post, you do need that TikTok. But when you think about it as infrastructure and we're trying to get the entire organization on board, you're thinking about it as strategy. And so let's say, for instance, something that happens in my everyday life, there's a
webinar that needs to happen, or maybe there is an event that we're hosting and we want to get people, we want to get butts in seats. We want to get people to pay attention. Thinking about it as an output is just like, okay, can you post this flyer on Instagram or can you send this text message out? Thinking about it as strategy is how long do I have to actually get the most people in seats, right? What budget do I have that can maybe get a content creator to help me amplify this? Or
maybe I don't need to go wide, maybe I just need to go deep. And so who has attended an event like this before? And could this be a part two? Could this be a series? And so when you start to think about content from that perspective, your whole organization actually starts to function a little bit more strategically and efficiently rather than just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. I feel like it's almost like a billboard, right? You know that a billboard is going to get you customers. You just don't know.
50% is spent and 50% is wasted. We just don't know which is which. And when you start to think strategically, when you start to use digital tools, you can know exactly who came to you because of this. And I always say in marketing, the most expensive thing you can make in marketing is an assumption. And so when you actually have the tools and the resources to think more strategically, I just don't see why you shouldn't. I don't see why you shouldn't. And so
really, we have to start thinking more strategically about the kinds of content we're putting out, where we're putting it in, when we're putting it out. And overwhelmingly, you will see a return on that investment.
Benjamin Ard06:56 — I love that. That's incredible. How is this shift? And it's cool that your organization has caught onto this, leadership's pushing this. How does it change the process of content creation for you and the team? You know, there's traditional briefs and all that kind of stuff. And a lot of times it's like, you know, I want this case study or I want this kind of thing built. How has that changed the process for requesting, creating,
Benjamin Ard07:18 — building, repurposing? It seems like that also fundamentally changes the process as well of content.
Vanessa Mbonu07:22 — It does. It does. And it does so by putting the audience first and having an audience first mentality and strategy. A lot of times people have deliverables and they have things that they really want to accomplish, but they're not thinking about the end user. You're not just doing this for yourself. You're not doing this for funsies or to make yourself happy. You're actually doing it so people can get real value and real benefit from it. And so I always encourage not just my team, but really the many teams that I consult to think bigger. Right. And so
using the NAACP as an example, I can say, okay, we're America's first and largest civil rights organization. Therefore, all day, every day, we're gonna talk about civil rights. That's not gonna work in this day and age. I actually have to get into the mind of my ideal supporter, my ideal activist, and understand that while they do care about voting rights and while they do care about social justice, they're also probably watching Love Island, you know? They're also probably watching March Madness. Like, there's other people trying to get their attention as well.
And so if I can insert myself into the overall dialogue, the cultural dialogue, and then have them see me as sort of a trusted member of the community, they're more likely to come to that webinar, to come to that event. And so I encourage all marketers to start thinking outside of the box. I know that's very cliche to say, but start thinking outside of the box and think about the end user. What do they ultimately want from this thing that you're providing them, the service, the product, whatever it is, and where else can they get that?
And even after they've gotten it from you, where else are they going? In this day and age where you have plastic surgeons doing TikTok videos to recruit patients, you can't just rest on your laurels anymore. Everyone's a content creator. And so even if your product or your service is not necessarily primed for social media or the content scape, you really should get it there.
Because inevitably in the next three to five years, you're gonna lose those customers. You're gonna lose that audience if you're not thinking about their needs and their wants first.
Benjamin Ard09:15 — Interesting. I really love that. I think that's really cool. Starting with the audience first, being more strategic. Now it's interesting as we're looking at the current technology and the landscape of content creation and what teams are doing, artificial intelligence is everywhere. It's impossible to have a conversation that doesn't involve AI in some way, shape, or form. With a more strategic approach
Benjamin Ard09:37 — and an audience specific approach, really looking at the outcomes versus the outputs, how are you using AI? Because AI is like a really cool tool and sometimes we use it to get high output, but not necessarily like the highest quality and focusing on the outcomes. How are you maintaining that quality and that strategy, audience first kind of perspective,
Benjamin Ard10:02 — while still getting the benefits of using AI in the process and workflow?
Vanessa Mbonu10:06 — Yeah, I definitely believe that AI, we're still talking about it honestly, because there's this camp that's like anti AI, I don't want to use AI, it's taking our jobs, which is not untrue. And then there's this other camp that's like, my god, AI is the best thing ever. I'm more efficient with it. I'm more effective with it. AI, AI, AI. And I say this, if you're not using AI, please know that the AI is using you. And so you really have to get on board in one way, shape or form.
Benjamin Ard10:31 — I love that quote, yeah.
Vanessa Mbonu10:34 — Pick a side and then figure out how you're going to make the most of it. And AI is a force multiplier. It is not the end all be all. And so the output is really only going to be as good as the prompt. The agent is only going to be as good as the builder. And so I often say, you can either start with AI or you can end with AI, but it shouldn't be AI from start to finish. And so my personal philosophy is in order for me to
also continue to be a subject matter expert, to know what I'm doing, to see the trends, I have to be as invested in the creation of this thing as possible. Now, do I want to start my draft or start my design or start my copy and then feed it into the AI and say, make it better? Or do I want to say, AI, I'm trying to do this thing. What do you think about it? What's the best way to do it? Give me a first draft and then I take it to the next level. That's kind of the camp that I'm in. That's the route that I'm in. And so I say to everyone who's listening to this,
figure out how AI can make your work better, not how you can make AI better. Because if you're standing on the other side and you're just feeding it everything you have, you're making the AI smarter, but you're doing yourself a disservice. You're doing your organization a disservice and you own nothing and you're selling all your data for free, basically. But if you can figure out how to use these tools, every emerging tool that's coming out every day, to maybe improve your workflows, to maybe give you three concepts to choose from rather than one,
to fact check, to spell check, to A-B test, then I think that's a better way to go about it. But it's not disappearing, it's definitely not going anywhere. And I think that we all need to pay attention and in some cases lobby for responsible and ethical AI for sure. But also understand that it's only as good as what you give it.
Benjamin Ard12:22 — Yeah, I love that. That's so cool. I love the real actual approach, the hand in hand. And I love it doesn't start with AI and end with AI. You have to be a part of the process to make it actually have something beautiful. I love that. So final question, because we're almost out of time and these go by so quick. For anyone listening to the podcast, I always like to end on a more of a tactical note. Anyone listening thinking, okay, yeah, like I can see
Vanessa Mbonu12:34 — You have to, yeah.
Benjamin Ard12:49 — maybe our content program can be a little bit more strategic. We need to look at this idea of infrastructure instead of output. Any tactical tips or advice to get started today or this week to go down this pathway? Cause it does sound like there's organizational change that needs to take place. There is fundamental shifts in mentality. You know, there's a few things, but what would you tactically do if you were someone in a new organization
Benjamin Ard13:16 — wanting to adopt this change, what would you do this week to make that happen?
Vanessa Mbonu13:20 — I would do a skills assessment and then I would find out. When I, again, going back to my early days, I had a boss give us a start, stop, continue. We were all kind of new on the team and she said, what is one thing that you want to start doing? What is one thing you want to stop doing? And then what is one thing you want to continue doing? And I think that that same framework would help teams understand number one, how to
make their content more efficient and also how to integrate AI into their already existing workflows. And so for me, I always knew I was a creative person. I'm not really good with my hands, but I'm really good with my mind. And so I wanted to spend as much possible time thinking up ideas, editing videos, writing great copy. I didn't want to spend a tremendous amount of time doing
monthly reports. And I didn't want to spend a tremendous amount of time writing meeting notes and, you know, all these different things that had to be done. We didn't have enough bodies to do all of them, but because I was spending so much time doing the things that I needed to do, I didn't have enough time to do the things that I wanted to do. And so I feel like the most tactical piece of advice I could say is like, what is the one thing in your workflow and your business and your organization that absolutely needs to be done,
but does not need to be done by a human being? And how do you start to automate those things so that you have more time to be more strategic, right? Because I feel like AI is not so great with strategy. At least not better than me, I will say. It's not better than me. And so do a skills assessment. See where you are. Maybe there are just some people on your team that are just really good at executing and they don't have any ideas worth salt.
Vanessa Mbonu14:58 — And maybe there are people who are really great at thinking big and having those big picture ideas and, you know, ideating, but they can't stitch a document together to save their lives. Like, what ultimately are you lacking? And then what are you trying to be? And I love having sort of an organizational mentor, not necessarily a person, but another brand that is doing something the way that,
if you had all the resources and all the time in the world, you would be doing it. And that's not necessarily a brand that's even in your category or your direct competitor. And so perhaps I work for Target. Let me not use Target. They're in a lot of mess right now. But let's say, you know, I have an ice cream shop in my little town, right? And I've just started this ice cream shop and I really want to scale and I really want to, you know, be that local thing. I want to end up in the
local newspapers and the blogs and have all the influencers like talking about me. So I know that I need to be where they are. I need to up my content. And I keep recognizing that every time, you know, a certain demographic comes in, maybe they have a Labubu on their bag. And I'm like, man, like this is a little monster on a bag, but every third girl that walks in here has a Labubu on the bag. Like how do I scale my content production and my cultural penetration to be like that of Labubu?
Right? So that's what I mean to find a brand mentor, an organizational mentor. For me, it's I work at the NAACP, which is great. We work for people of color. We are trying to advocate and we're trying to advance civil rights and social justice. So obviously a lot of our audience are Black people. You know what else Black people like? Nike, the NBA, you know, Beyonce. What does their content look like? And what is pushing people to
go to those platforms time after time after time? And how do I bring that into my space? And how do I bring that into what I'm doing? So I don't need to start selling basketballs tomorrow. And that's not to make light of any stereotype, but it's just like, what is the thing that people keep going back to? Oh, that's joy. They find joy in these things. And so how do I make my content a little bit more joyful? If they're having an issue and they
perhaps don't call the cops when they go to their local faith leader, okay, they're looking for hope. They're looking for inspiration. How do I make my content a little bit more hopeful and a little bit more inspirational? And so that's kind of the bigger picture. No matter what business you're in, no matter what space you're in, you can always think about the bottom line audience first. Like what is my audience really looking for? What are some common trends? What are some common through lines and how do I insert myself into that
conversation in an authentic way, in a sustainable way where I can continue to be consistent and also show that I am more than a brand, I'm more than a product, but really I am a partner in their day-to-day lives.
Benjamin Ard17:51 — I love that. That's so cool. I love this conversation. I love your approach to marketing. I love how you look at content. It's such a holistic view of AI as well and really just taking care of your audience in the most meaningful way. I love that. Vanessa, for anyone who wants to reach out and connect with you online, how and where can they find you?
Vanessa Mbonu17:52 — Thank you.
You can find me on LinkedIn. It's just my name, Vanessa Mbonu. I'm also on all the socials at Vanessa Nnie. That's Vanessa N-N-I-E. I will warn you, I'm a little bit unhinged. So follow at your own risk.
Benjamin Ard18:25 — I love it. I love it. For everyone listening, regardless of what platform you're on, scroll down to the show notes, look down there. We will have the links embedded right there. Go ahead and click on them. Connect with Vanessa, say hello, say you came from the podcast, all that fun stuff. Vanessa, this has been incredible. Thank you so much for the time and insights today. Really do appreciate it.
Vanessa Mbonu18:38 — Don't bite, I promise.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Ben.
